Forum Activity for @john-henry

"Ironwood" noter, from a slab collected in East Texas, ca. 1960, by A.L Vawter.

Approximately 6 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4 in. (15 x 1 x 0.6 cm). "D" cross section.

Dense, extremely hard wood. It sinks in water and is difficult to work.

It made a nice, slick noter that sounds a bit softer than a goose quill.

Probably Big Bend or Eastern Hophornbeam. (Ostrya virginiana var. chisosensis or Ostrya virginiana var. virginiana, 2007)

Robin Clark said:

I also think it would be a excellent wood for a fretless set-up

Fretless dulcimer? We have that option? I'm intrigued, who makes these?

Our mutual friend John Henry gets the most wonderful tone from using the thick end of a turkey or goose quill as a noter. This doesn't score all that high on durability, I suppose, although they seem to last him a reasonable time, but it's a great sound and action. John started using them after learning that this is what most of the Galax-style players in Virginia use.

Hi D.T.

Here are some photos of the board. I simply cut it from a piece of ply. It really only took me an hour or so to build. I didn't put much time into it as I wasn't sure if it would work - but I've been using it every day for the last 9 months!

Hi D.T.

Here are some photos of the board. I simply cut it from a piece of ply. It really only took me an hour or so to build. I didn't put much time into it as I wasn't sure if it would work - but I've been using it every day for the last 9 months!

I use a strap on my MD and the board and MD sit together snuggly because of those little flanges at each end.

Robin

Dusty Turtle said:

Robin, might I ask what the dimensions of your possom board are? I had never really thought about using one, largely because I mainly play alone so volume isn't an issue. But your description makes me wonder how my dulcimer would sound with a possom board. I play with a strap and can only imagine putting a small board underneath.

D.T.

Robin Clark said:

I built a simple possum board for my MD and was very surprised at the difference it made. It has given the instrument more volume and a rounder tone. I have a strap on my MD and it holds the MD and the possum board that the MD rests on just fine - I have found no need to attach the two together. Having heard what a possum board can do, I am having a Galax style false back built onto the MD I have presently on order as I want the possum board built-in for ease of use.

Robin

Robin, might I ask what the dimensions of your possom board are? I had never really thought about using one, largely because I mainly play alone so volume isn't an issue. But your description makes me wonder how my dulcimer would sound with a possom board. I play with a strap and can only imagine putting a small board underneath.

D.T.

Robin Clark said:

I built a simple possum board for my MD and was very surprised at the difference it made. It has given the instrument more volume and a rounder tone. I have a strap on my MD and it holds the MD and the possum board that the MD rests on just fine - I have found no need to attach the two together. Having heard what a possum board can do, I am having a Galax style false back built onto the MD I have presently on order as I want the possum board built-in for ease of use.

Robin

I built a simple possum board for my MD and was very surprised at the difference it made. It has given the instrument more volume and a rounder tone. I have a strap on my MD and it holds the MD and the possum board that the MD rests on just fine - I have found no need to attach the two together. Having heard what a possum board can do, I am having a Galax style false back built onto the MD I have presently on order as I want the possum board built-in for ease of use.

Robin

No reason you can't put a strap on a possum board! Either gravity or a low pressure bungee or rubber band holds the dulcimer on the possum board (sometimes a wooden toggle).

Tail-end lifting when you fret near the head is caused by not having your knees far enough apart and the dulcimer placed incorrectly on your lap. The nut or first fret should be over your left knee, the other end tucked into you right hip. The dulcimer does not naturally sit at right angles to your lap.

Personally I find straps very encumbering and restricting.

I'm new to the possum boards. What keeps them in your lap any better than the bare dulcimer? I have used a strap on everything I play, even my harmonica's are nearly always in a holder.
The zero fret is a manufacturing shortcut, for the most part. To adjust the string height at the nut takes longer, so some makers use a zero fret. I don't mean to imply that it is to be avoided. If the maker uses it, that's fine. What I meant to express was that it was no particular advantage for the player, and not worth adding as an option at extra cost. Frequently, manufacturers ship their instruments with high action, allowing the dealer to adjust it to the preferences of the buyer. I have seen a lot of guitars and other instruments on which the dealer didn't bother to adjust the string height at the nut, leaving the purchaser with an instrument that was hard to play. Some don't have personnel to make these adjustments, and tell you to take it somewhere at your expense.These dealers should be avoided. I shouldn't have said "maker" in my original post, as the problem mostly rests with dealers who don't build instruments. A lot of good dealers are out there, ready to adjust any instrument they sell. I hope I haven't created confusion. One of my dulcimers has a zero fret, but whether there is a sound difference from that, I couldn't possibly say. There are too many differences in my 2 dulcimers to narrow it down to any one factor.Paul

D.T. One thing you might want to think about when it comes to a double back is substituting a possum board. You mentioned not playing flat in your lap, so I tried my possum board resting in a more up right angled position. It held my dulcimer securely, and did increase the sound in that position. Usually I play flat across my lap, but with it more at an upright angle it also gave me a place to rest my right arm. And a strap can be attached to the board rather than the dulcimer.

The advantage I see in the possum board over a double back is that with one possum board all my dulcimers can have a freed up bottom for an increase in volume, or not if I don't want or need the extra sound. Just a thought.

And myself on the other hand- I don't care for zero frets. They give my drones a slightly metallic sound as compared to how they sound with a bone type nut. Regardless of the fretted melody string tone, I still like the drones to sound 'non-fretted', just my own preference.
And I think a well made instrument shouldn't need a zero fret to improve intonation.

I've found that having a 0 fret improves/unifies the timbre of the open string compared to fretted strings. That is, the open string has the same sound quality as the fretted strings because the string stop is the same material in both cases compared to fret vs nut material.

I play noter and drone on unison strings though so having a different timbre on two of my strings is a noticeable problem. I suspect if I was a chord style player then I might not notice it as much because the members of the chord would be fretted more often.

I do play Galax style (but don't own a Galax instrument, yet) and the double bottom is traditional in that style. As I understand, the only real purpose is to remove the dampening effect our lap has on the back just as playing atop a resonator box (or table) would. What I wonder though is why, if we're interested in transferring vibration to the back, that we don't use a soundpost in conjunction with that false bottom.

I won't rehash the good advice others have given you, just add what I have been told:
Binding is said to protect the corner/joint from damage coming from minor impacts, besides its cosmetic function. It is the one "option" that the guy who built my dulcimer really pushed, for that reason.
Scalloped fretboards look really cool when done correctly. That is almost enough to justify them by itself.
I wouldn't rule out a builder just because they do or don't use a zero fret, it is just a differnt way of doing the same thing. I certainly wouldn't ask a luthier to add one if they don't usually use it, or delete one if they do. There are fine instruments around built both ways.
Even if there ae no luthiers at a festival, there are usually people there with a number of different dulcimers that you can see, hear, and often play if you ask nice.

Good luck!

One thing you can do is make some phone calls to some of the builders here and on ED. Talk to them about what you are looking for by way of sound and see if they can build an instrument to your needs. Some builders, like McSpadden or other factory built instruments, don't modify their design as they are looking for a certain consistency of sound. Which is understandable as they do a large wholesale business as well as retail.

Other builders will be more adaptable as to size, depth of body, woods, sound holes designs etc. Talk to them about your wants as a buyer. Let them play a few instruments from what they have in stock and see if you and the builder can come up with a mutual design.

Dusty Turtle said:

Well, I am confused, folkfan, but that's not your fault!

It's apparent that there are a lot of variables involved, which makes me even more nervous about buying an instrument from someone whose work I've never played or heard.

D.T.


folkfan said:

D.T. Remember when it comes to comparing the sounds of wood from a guitar to a dulcimer, there is a great deal more wood sounding on a guitar and the bracing is different as well. Your combination of woods can have both a bright and a mellow tone depending on the size of the instrument and where the bridge is place in relationship to the tail block. A longer VSL can have a tinny sound in the higher octaves if the construction of the instrument narrows the body out under those frets and you have a small strum hollow way out on the end of the instrument. Or you can have a shorter VSL that doesn't sound tinny as the body of the instrument is wide and deep well beyond the end of the VSL. But if the luthier has correctly placed the frets you shouldn't have a drastic sharping or flatting of notes in the higher octave. Even the same VSL can sound different based on the shape of the instrument. Is that clear, or have I just confused you????.

Well, I am confused, folkfan, but that's not your fault!

It's apparent that there are a lot of variables involved, which makes me even more nervous about buying an instrument from someone whose work I've never played or heard.

D.T.


folkfan said:

D.T. Remember when it comes to comparing the sounds of wood from a guitar to a dulcimer, there is a great deal more wood sounding on a guitar and the bracing is different as well. Your combination of woods can have both a bright and a mellow tone depending on the size of the instrument and where the bridge is place in relationship to the tail block. A longer VSL can have a tinny sound in the higher octaves if the construction of the instrument narrows the body out under those frets and you have a small strum hollow way out on the end of the instrument. Or you can have a shorter VSL that doesn't sound tinny as the body of the instrument is wide and deep well beyond the end of the VSL. But if the luthier has correctly placed the frets you shouldn't have a drastic sharping or flatting of notes in the higher octave. Even the same VSL can sound different based on the shape of the instrument. Is that clear, or have I just confused you????.

D.T. Remember when it comes to comparing the sounds of wood from a guitar to a dulcimer, there is a great deal more wood sounding on a guitar and the bracing is different as well. Your combination of woods can have both a bright and a mellow tone depending on the size of the instrument and where the bridge is place in relationship to the tail block. A longer VSL can have a tinny sound in the higher octaves if the construction of the instrument narrows the body out under those frets and you have a small strum hollow way out on the end of the instrument. Or you can have a shorter VSL that doesn't sound tinny as the body of the instrument is wide and deep well beyond the end of the VSL. But if the luthier has correctly placed the frets you shouldn't have a drastic sharping or flatting of notes in the higher octave. Even the same VSL can sound different based on the shape of the instrument. Is that clear, or have I just confused you????.

A double back will increase volume and might with the way you play increase it even more as both backs aren't as muffled as the bottom back is when lying across the lap.

Many makers allow the top to move more freely by decreasing the fretboard internally. They rout it out. Others will scallop. I like the full length fretboard for the bracing of the top along the complete length of the fretboard. Personal preference.

I've never had a dulcimer with a binding so I can't tell you anything about them.

Personally I like a semi gloss finish in a lacquer. The really heavy glossy coating on an instrument as small bodied as a normal dulcimer would deaden the sound, (IMO)

For my hand size I prefer a VSL just under 26inches, I had one once with a 30 inch and never could play it. I tried to learn chording on a longer VSL, but had an increased problem with my hands due to the stretch and strain, so gave up chording entirely.

I'd say go with the 1+ and 8+ if you think you'll use them.

The double back allows the back to vibrate more freely and allows a bit more volume. The scallopped fretboard would help in the same way by letting the top vibrate more. The scallops also allow you to use a guitar capo, if they are located under the area where you would capo each fret. So the scallops would have the same spacing pattern as the frets, at least up to the 7th fret. I'm not sure if anyone would capo above that point, but it's an option. There are a few other things builders do to increase volume, such as only allowing part of the fretboard to contact the top. Usually, the area towards the tuners is anchored to the top, and the other end of the fretboard is cut away to let the top vibrate free.
The zero fret is just in front of the nut. It allows the strings to be as close to the neck at the 1st fret as it would be to other frets when you press the string down to the frets. A skilled maker can adjust the nut height so the zero fret is unnecessary, but some makers use them. I have one guitar & one dulcimer with zero frets, and others without. I wouldn't order one on purpose, if your chosen maker doesn't normally use one. It does nothing to justify the expense, unless the maker doesn't want to take the time to adjust the string height at the nut. If a builder told me he wasn't willing to make his instruments play well, I'd find another maker. On the other hand, my dulcimers were both kits. The maker of a kit has no control over the abilities, or lack of abillities, his kit will recieve. I can completely understand the use of a zero fret in a kit. It's much simpler for a hack like me to get good action without ruining 2 or 3 nuts on the way. It also makes it possible to build a kit with less nut slotting tools. Again, the home hobbyist/builder is in mind here.
Binding is mostly decorative. It does seal the end grain of the wood, but I'm not sure how much need there is for it. Mine don't have it, I suspect most kit models don't.
A thick heavy finish will deaden the sound of an instrument. But a proper, thin finish can shine, it depends on the product used.
A short VSL will bring the frets closer together. If you have small hands, this makes it easier to play, if you use chords, or find yourself stretching to get your thumb on a fret far above your fingers. Playing noter style you might never see a problem either way. With a longer vsl, you have to tighten the strings to a higher tension to reach the same pitches. This extra tension makes the strings a bit harder to press to the frets, but with the action adjusted correctly, this shouldn't be a problem/ That goes back to the nut adjustment in the 1st question, plus the bridge height.
Softer woods such as spruce and cedar are pretty much the standard for most string instrument tops, with hard woods the standard for back & sides. The best thing to do is play as many dulcimers as you can to hear how the different choices affect the sound. Maple is a brighter sounding wood than walnut, mahogany or rosewood. It really comes down to what you want your new toy to sound like. Try as many as you can, and see what you like in woods, sounds and VSL's. Take your time, there's lots of choices. You wouldn't want to miss any!
Paul